Listal Advertising

Poster	Message
Thilian VIP Rank : 26	Posted : 3 months, 2 weeks ago at Mar 20 3:27 - Our plan here has already been decided on - clean up the site, smooth it out, and update it, then put it out on the market as the next big thing. We might as well help Tom out with his direction, right? He's the only one coding the site, after all. People from multiple fields can help here, from forum-goers to business people and anyone that has even the slightest mention to add. Who knows what'll make the big difference? Suggestions can include both things that we can do and things that Tom can do. Tom's already posted on my profile saying affiliates haven't been as helpful for him as banner ads. Given that information, these are my suggestions for how to attack: 1) We should ALL put at least one widget on our MySpace and other blogs and things. In addition to widgets, Listal banners should be made for the purpose of sharing on websites and in forum sigs. Anyone can make banners like this - it's a simple matter of messing around on Paint, putting the image online, and coding it. 2) I don't know if this is possible, but spruce up Internet Explorer's (and other providers') perception of Listal? The following thread shows the difference merely in queries (though I'd not prefer Firefox if the rankings are that wanked): http://www.listal.com/groups/viewthread/7529/ 3) Simple things work while aggressively advertising on forums tends to piss people off. We've witnessed spam like that here, even. If you're on a forum, though, and there's a thread along the lines of 'Funniest Muppet Moments' or 'Favorite Costume Dramas', make a list with notes and link to that in your response. When listing your favorite movies, books, etc. anywhere, just make the process easier and link to listal. That's one of the things the site is for, eh? 4) Though I'm a little ignorant when it comes to all this importing/exporting of data, it never hurts to be able to switch over one's collection from another list site. The greatest deterrent that keeps web browsers from joining Listal, I've learned from experience, is the overwhelming concept of retrieving everything you own before beginning to use the website. Even before looking at the forums or seeing duplicate entries, this tends to be the first turnoff. If someone can get their stuff on here with a simple import function, they're less likely to pass us up. Exporting data will likewise help in getting members from other list sites to recognize us. I think we'd also have an easier time taking the world by storm if we did it as directly as possible. ;)
Bael VIP Rank : 5	Posted : 3 months, 2 weeks ago at Mar 20 4:14 - hm. i don't know. what if listal gets the "next big thing" and the now devoted tom becomes a sellout like all those other web 2.0-nerds, becoming himself a billionare and quitting listal, so some faceless megacorp can ruin what we have built ;). well, this was just a little sarcasm, but it has a core of truth in it. i have seen this with quite some communities, which is really frustrating, as the users are those who make up the whole content (and worth of the site, from which only a few persons aka the founders profit at the end). other than that i'm eager to help where i can because i really, really like listal. listal has 42404 users right at the moment, so maybe it would be an option to generate cash: making the vip-option more attractive through more (non-essential) extra-features. if only 5% get VIP that would be quite some money. other users: making recommending and user-creation even more easier and giving more options for people. also some kind of API would help so people could write apps for facebook and the like.
Thilian VIP Rank : 26	Posted : 3 months, 2 weeks ago at Mar 20 4:31 - It already says 'VIP' on the profiles and under avatars, but there should be a search query for VIP members so they can be recognized and other people can be jealous of their place in the Listal Gallery of Saints. Allowing VIPs superior Listal functionality would be great for things that would normally be held off to avoid spam. Like letting them upload five images at once, or things of that like. Things that are better than just having an account - not like you need to donate to take full advantage of the site. Who knows - I might be the first Listal member to renew my subscription!
Bael VIP Rank : 5	Posted : 3 months, 2 weeks ago at Mar 20 4:36 - i'm not a fan of crippled accounts for standard-users. instead, as i already said, vip-users should have more features that are not essential to the site (layout, profile, etc.), to make it attractive for standard-users. however, i think this is a little off-topic. i only wanted to point out that there is much potential in the already established user-base, even without expand it.
Prelude VIP Moderator Rank : 2	Posted : 3 months, 2 weeks ago at Mar 20 8:33 - Well, Groups are somewhat under control. Anime is once again about Anime, and not 'Random Chat #2'. RP banning - as well as RP banding ;) - would cause WAY too much chaos, probably resulting in groups being completely shut down, or me deleting basically every new thread, so I decided to give them RP rules to follow, taken directly from a true RP site. Groups aside, the following really needs to be addressed as they are most noticeable and biggest complaints on Listal: 1. Tackle the duplicate issue, most apparent in Music and Games. My suggestion is to give Mods power to delete out entries and allow us to move users that are indexing the wrong (duplicate) entry so they now list correct entry. Merging of PAL, different Region issues, special edition, re-issue is not needed right now, but at least if we had a way to deal with true duplicate entries, that would be awesome. 2. Fix the cast list. Not sure best way to handle it, but it does need to be addressed soon as it seems to be a big complaint from some new users. 3. Give mods option to bury/delete bad reviews, or something else to address it. It makes some movie pages look like crap because of some of the reviews. 4. Make Customs lists more noticeable, or give them their own area. Or make some lists 'public' so anyone can edit them, for highly dynamic things such as 'new & upcoming games' or 'Now Playing in Theaters' or 'Coming Soon to DVD'. Other prominent listing/movie/game sites have this, and we have excellent tools to do it as well, we just need to make them visible rather than hunting thru GROUPS discussions to find good lists. We tackle those 4 key areas and Listal would become a true force to watch out for on the net.
jgnikkila Rank : 42	Posted : 3 months, 2 weeks ago at Mar 20 8:56 - 1. Tackle the duplicate issue, most apparent in Music and Games. My suggestion is to give Mods power to delete out entries and allow us to move users that are indexing the wrong (duplicate) entry so they now list correct entry. Merging of PAL, different Region issues, special edition, re-issue is not needed right now, but at least if we had a way to deal with true duplicate entries, that would be awesome. In music: true duplicate entry = same exact edition When it comes to albums released with bonus tracks, alternate covers, albums released by different labels, editions which might look the same but have differences in sound quality (some) people will still want to keep them separate. This is if you want Listal to appeal to collector types. Somehow merging (as well as keeping) all different music, DVD, book, game editions under one main entry should be the ultimate goal. I'm guessing when you search through Amazon, all the search results still get added to the database. Which is zillions of items & duplicates that no one here has catalogued or will even want to. This should be fixed somehow.
jgnikkila Rank : 42	Posted : 3 months, 2 weeks ago at Mar 20 9:11 - Good rule of thumb might be: delete any edition (of OK Computer till exempel) 0 people have rated, catalogued etc. Although I have some albums on my lists with zero ratings. And what if you have a private shopping list which includes items no one has touched?
GemLil Moderator Rank : 14	Posted : 3 months, 2 weeks ago at Mar 20 10:13 - I agree with all the above suggestions, but I am with Bael here, I am sooo worried about this place becoming too big. The compatability ratings etc are just calling out for this place to become a dating agency. I want the site to do well but I dont want it to lose what makes it great. If we could identify a target audience that would be helpful/desirable for the site, maybe thats a start? For example; media and arts students could leave links on university or alumni forums. I'm definately for the merging of different region issues, there is no point having 3 of the same album available when they all have the same cover and track list.
jgnikkila Rank : 42	Posted : 3 months, 2 weeks ago at Mar 20 10:24 - there is no point having 3 of the same album available when they all have the same cover and track list. Remastered editions. Or CD vs. LP. Or a reggae CD from Pressure Sounds (with beautiful sound, informative booklet, the works) vs. a crappy sounding disc from Lagoon. Or Stooges' Raw Power LP vs. first CD issue vs. the new Iggy Pop remix which is the only version currently available (not a "remix album", just a new edition, which still sounds so different people are arguing about whether it's the same album)
Prelude VIP Moderator Rank : 2	Posted : 3 months, 2 weeks ago at Mar 20 10:30 - I'm pretty sure CDs and LPs have different album covers, Dale. :)
jgnikkila Rank : 42	Posted : 3 months, 2 weeks ago at Mar 20 10:33 - Pöh. Not when they're reduced to little Amazon pics they don't.
Thilian VIP Rank : 26	Posted : 3 months, 2 weeks ago at Mar 20 11:52 - I've put up an example of what a Listal banner ad would look like on my profile. It's also in my Photos section. Made it myself with Paint.
Prelude VIP Moderator Rank : 2	Posted : 3 months, 2 weeks ago at Mar 20 12:24 - Dale, I think the key is Listal (Tom) has to decide which direction to take: - Go all anal, cataloging every single item and edition ever made, such as the serbian blu-ray version of The Matrix, complete with a free Polo shirt that says 'I love Matrix' - Go very loose, and have only one entry per item -- all regions, all NTSC/PAL, all North American & Japanese & UK covers, all special editions - Go loose but stay anal (ok, getting sick with my metaphors): basically, this is what has been discussed, and Tom mentioned he wants to go that route. All individual items can be cataloged/listed/collected, but each item will have one general entry. Basically, you own 'The matrix' DVD. and then, on the item page for matrix, you'd have a section with all different versions of this film, and you can check off which one you own. but right now, its all so chaotic, so many dupes, so many 'what-appear-to-be-dupes' but are perfectly valid re-issues or special versions (even in Games, a re-print of a game sometimes is just a re-print, and sometimes it now comes on a DVD with extra levels and improved content or improved graphics.) And though it may be a valid way to go just to have all different versions, its a mess when trying to find your version because of innacurate descriptions, typos, and poor search function in Listal. Another concern is all the crap in the Game section (not sure if its found in DVD) where you can add items such as figurines, t-shirts, keychains, posters, extension cables, memory cards, console skins, and a ton of other crap that really shouldnt be in our database. Games should only be games, game systems, and direct gaming accessories (pluggable addons, controllers)
jgnikkila Rank : 42	Posted : 3 months, 2 weeks ago at Mar 20 12:47 - The first thing to do is to get rid of the dupes, and somehow disable the Amazon search from adding a billion useless items to the database. After that's under control I guess I'm of the following persuasion: Go loose but stay anal (ok, getting sick with my metaphors): basically, this is what has been discussed, and Tom mentioned he wants to go that route. All individual items can be cataloged/listed/collected, but each item will have one general entry. Basically, you own 'The matrix' DVD. and then, on the item page for matrix, you'd have a section with all different versions of this film, and you can check off which one you own. Where it gets tricky is DVDs, and the fact people might want to write rewiews focused on the technical qualities & extra features, add screenshots etc. And there can be big differences in these areas between editions of one movie. Some DVDs come with such extras as poor image quality, pan/scan, dubbed audiotrack only, 1/3 of footage cut for US audiences, after-coloured image for b/w movie etc. In circumstances where all editions are slapped together this way, it might be pretty pointless to write reviews or add screenshots. I would hope for a solution for this.
Prelude VIP Moderator Rank : 2	Posted : 3 months, 2 weeks ago at Mar 20 13:23 - I agree on the DVD review issue, but let's face it, just getting ANY kind of review is what we should aim for, and most review exposure as well (my grouping same or very similar versions). we can worry about splitting up reviews for specific versions at a later day, once we have a ton of reviews.
jgnikkila Rank : 42	Posted : 3 months, 2 weeks ago at Mar 20 13:34 - Exactly. I'm just hoping nothing gets designed so that you can't fix it afterwards. Anyway, should stop derailing Thilian's topic.
Phil Rank : 21	Posted : 3 months, 2 weeks ago at Mar 20 13:57 - Which is way as I always say when this is discussed, the utmost care HAS to be taken if/when "merging" items, else you're liable to delete info. I, like others, use the site to catalogue MY collections - with the right UPC, image, release date and so on - and if the site doesn't reflect that, I'll end up having to take my data elsewhere, which I'd really rather not do! I do agree that any item with no-one having added/listed/rated/tagged it could be deleted, while the games section is gradually being cleared up. (I've done a bit in the music section as well, although clearly there's only so much I can get through!) I do agree with the "master item" solution, so long as all the existing edition specific info still exists and is visible - tracklists, product codes, number of disks, record label, release date, cover, region and so on :)
escafeld Rank : 45	Posted : 3 months, 2 weeks ago at Mar 20 13:59 - Go very loose, and have only one entry per item -- all regions, all NTSC/PAL, all North American & Japanese & UK covers, all special editions This for me is the ideal way of cataloguing collections. If I own a Lord of the Rings DVD then I am interested in who else has it, regardless of format, edition, language etc etc. Every format, edition etc is collected together as a 'work' making everything more social. Just like LibraryThing does for books.
Thilian VIP Rank : 26	Posted : 3 months, 2 weeks ago at Mar 20 14:03 - I'm assuming you guys missed my last post due to all the other stuff. This is what a banner ad would look like for Listal. Click it and see where it takes you...
Prelude VIP Moderator Rank : 2	Posted : 3 months, 2 weeks ago at Mar 20 18:44 - yes, I saw it. um, yes... umm.. not sure how to break it to you... do you need a bootleg copy of Photoshop? Please? No more MS Paint masterpieces. ;)
Phil Rank : 21	Posted : 3 months, 2 weeks ago at Mar 20 19:04 - I'd suggest that any banner needs to do more than just say the name of the site. From that, there's little way of telling that - it's likely to be a link - what it's for/what a "Listal" is - what you can do with it. I'd suggest that including something on the lines of "books/films/dvds/music/games and more... list the stuff you <3" (an extension of Tom's description, top left of site) would help cover it.
Thilian VIP Rank : 26	Posted : 3 months, 2 weeks ago at Mar 20 21:02 - yes, I saw it. um, yes... umm.. not sure how to break it to you... do you need a bootleg copy of Photoshop? Please? No more MS Paint masterpieces. ;) You have that dreadful Firefox, don't you? Must be if you're not in utter awe. I'm also working on a banner ad of an emu sticking his head in the ground. You can have the 'List the stuff you love' tagline additionally. Some banners are more complex than others, admittedly. These are far more complicated than that one above and you can get the jist of how banner ads vary: http://www.furcadia.com/download/created.html When you get popular enough, though, you can just make a simple nice-looking banner that says 'Gamespot' and no one will know the difference. ;)
Vix Rank : 78	Posted : 3 months, 2 weeks ago at Mar 22 23:11 - I see listal as the ultimate collection manager. It's why I chose it over maintaining accounts at the likes of shelfari or flixster. And that is where listal's value is as the "next big thing". The ideas for making it as such fall into three categories: 1) Improving/cleaning up features 2) Leveraging existing userbase for funding 3) Leveraging existing userbase to encourage new users My thoughts: 1.) Give lists more prominence. After all this is what listal is about - lists and the sharing thereof. Right now when I'm logged in I have to click on the link to my profile page and then click "lists" in order to see my lists. This should be on the main page once I'm logged in. Lists should also be featured on the main page alongside recent reviews,threads and people. The goal here is to increase activity on the site. I'd like to see lists with different permissions: (a)Global lists - this has been mentioned earlier. Having lists that everyone can add to increases the sense of community. (b)Friend lists - items that can be edited by selected friends. (c)Personal lists - my lists that only I can edit 2.) Improve Recommendations. Personal recommendations for top rated items is fine but I'd also like to have something more customizable (is that even a word?), that I can change from time to time because it's not just based on top ratings. Along the lines of "If you're in the mood for action then you might like ...." 3.) APIs The "next big thing" should have an API but for now I'd settle for working feeds. How can I pull my lists into my website if my feeds aren't working? How would I like an API to work? For example if I post a review on my site, I'd like to cross post that to listal as well. I'd also like to have an activity stream - a feed for recently added would be great! 4.) Leverage other services. (a)a listal twitter page ala foxytunes for recommendations (b)displaying an amazon wishlist in profiles/or being able to add an item to my amazon wishlist 5.) Increased visibility For search engine results, item pages would have to be regularly updated. Having news for the various items would go a long way to improving search rankings. Not sure how feasible that is though. It would also help to have listal listed at wikipedia especially on social networking website list Getting mentioned in a tech blog. I know techcrunch did a review on listal but that was waaaaay back in 2005. Getting featured on sites like techcrunch, readwriteweb would go a long way towards increasing the userbase, especially amongst the "geek" set. 6.) Support OpenID to make it easier for people to register. Get Satisfaction has a nice way of letting people use their existing profiles when registering. 7.) Use microformats: hcard for profiles, hreview for reviews 8.) Improve the friend finder. I'd like to see the use of oauth when importing my contacts rather than providing my password. By the way, where is the list of things that need to be done in order to clean up the site?
jgnikkila Rank : 42	Posted : 3 months, 1 week ago at Mar 23 11:00 - By the way, where is the list of things that need to be done in order to clean up the site? Scattered here and there on separate threads. Probably for the best, since a big list where everyone just throws in their suggestions, complaints, arguments would be too big a beast to handle. Although you could make a thread listing/compiling all those previous threads. Thilian's pretty good with those.
Bael VIP Rank : 5	Posted : 3 months, 1 week ago at Mar 23 12:21 - i remember a thread (by prelude?) which collected all the threads that were started for improvements/suggestions etc. over the time.
jgnikkila Rank : 42	Posted : 3 months, 1 week ago at Mar 23 12:34 - Ipanema's the man! http://www.listal.com/groups/viewthread/5499/